Curse

Maneo Ranae · May 20, 2009, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Need a build that doesn't use any Forms or Zealous Vow. One that only uses Scythe Mastery/Mysticism/Wind Prayers.

Current build I'm using is a little high on energy,... So I'm trying to tone it down.

My current build =
Reaper's Sweep - Chilling Victory - Asuran Scan - Heart of Fury - Zealous Renewal - Aura of Holy Might - Attacker's Insight - Faithful Intervention.

@
12+1+2 Scythe Mastery
12+1 Mysticism
3+1 Wind Prayers (Makes the break for Attacker's Insight)

I am serious, the above build IS hard on energy, lol. So, anyone, any thoughts on improving it? Without the use of Forms, Zealous Vow and Earth Prayers, please. Lol.

Cleaned up various bits of the thread - Marty

SuperCoha · May 20, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

Current build I'm using is a little high on energy,... So I'm trying to tone it down.

My current build =
Reaper's Sweep - Chilling Victory - Asuran Scan - Heart of Fury - Zealous Renewal - Aura of Holy Might - Attacker's Insight - Faithful Intervention.

@
12+1+2 Scythe Mastery
12+1 Mysticism
3+1 Wind Prayers (Makes the break for Attacker's Insight)

I am serious, the above build IS hard on energy, lol. So, anyone, any thoughts on improving it? Without the use of Forms, Zealous Vow and Earth Prayers, please. Lol.

Well seems ok enough, I'd drop Zealous Renewal for some other enchantment. Maybe GDA, I like having it in my builds. Anyway, your build doesn't seem very energy demanding, AI should cover for your two attack skills and give you some energy boost when it ends, so you should be able to cast your other enchantments without much problems. Try using short duration monk enchantments, or necro orders to give you even more energy, or try using Drunken Master instead of Heart of Fury if that's an option.

Maneo Ranae · May 20, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Drunken Master IS an option, as a matter of fact. I do find myself casting enchants ALOT of the time, so yeh... Think I'll drop Zealous Renewal indeed. Maybe Zealous Sweep instead? (I'm the kind of guy that likes to OVERmanage his energy lol, apparently)

And I'm running Sabway, so, short-duration enchants from heroes aren't really available =/.

Either way, thanks already.

May I ask, which builds do you guys run?

ac1inferno · May 20, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

[build prof=Dervish/any ScytheMastery=12+1+1 Mysticism=12+1 ][Reaper's Sweep][Eremite's attack][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][optional][Zealous Renewal][heart of fury][Resurrection Signet][/build]
- [[Conviction]
- [[Mending Touch]

or

[build prof=dervi/any scythe=12+1+1 mystic=11+1 wind=6+1][wounding strike][chilling victory][mystic sweep][attacker's insight][asuran scan][aura of holy might][heart of fury][optional][/build]

Slasher of Darkness · May 20, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Well, I'd drop zealous renewal, srsly, its not that good of a skill. I myself am using Drunken Master over Heart of Fury, I only use HoF in PvP and in avatar builds along with eternal aura to keep it up when needed. Use Reaper's Sweep, Zealous Sweep and Mystic Sweep imo. Asuran Scan and AoHM are great ^^. Keep Attacker's Insight. I also use Faithful intervention, for one it's a nice self heal to save ur arse at some spikes or something, and also cause I cannot find anything better to use in that slot. Hope this helped.

Saraneth · May 20, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maneo Ranae

Reaper's Sweep - Chilling Victory - Asuran Scan - Heart of Fury - Zealous Renewal - Aura of Holy Might - Attacker's Insight - Faithful Intervention.

You might consider dropping [[Chilling Victory] for [[Whirlwind Attack] and [[Zealous Renewal] for [[Mystic Sweep]. [[Faithful Intervention] isn't all that useful in pve; it can be subbed for [[Eremite's Attack] or [[Victorious Sweep].

Maneo Ranae · May 21, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

[build prof=dervi/any scythe=12+1+1 mystic=11+1 wind=6+1][wounding strike][chilling victory][mystic sweep][attacker's insight][asuran scan][aura of holy might][heart of fury][optional][/build]

I don't really understand why you put 6+1 into Wind, 3+1 makes the break for 2 attack skills with Attacker's Insight. If it's PvP I'd understand, because then Chilling Victory is Wind aswell, but then you wouldn't be able to use AoHM and Asuran Scan xD Please explain?

Just curious; why did you pick Wounding Strike over Reaper's Sweep in that one?

EDIT: I took Saraneth's advice on using Whirlwind Attack and consequently found that Attacker's Insight is now officially redundant, since the only two energy attack skills I have now are Reaper's Sweep (Which only costs 5e) and Zealous Sweep (which usually pays for itself; and sometimes covers the cost of Reaper's aswell). So, what now? Victorious Sweep/Farmer's Scythe maybe?

kontradictions · May 21, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I've read that Chilling Victory is no bueno. Might want to swap it out.

Megas XLR · May 21, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

At the very least take out Faithful Intervention and put in Wild Blow/Eremite's Attack/Mystic Sweep.

reaper with no name · May 21, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Chilling Victory isn't good if you're trying to manage your energy. Zealous Renewal is not a very good skill either (as others have pointed out).

Swap out CV for Mystic Sweep, Victorious Sweep, or Eremite's Attack. I'd personally recommend VS.

There was a huge discussion about RS vs WS recently. While they both have their advantages, they're really pretty balanced (in my personal opinion, at least).

I'm not quite understanding how your build is tough on energy though. I usually run the following:
[For Great Justice!][Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][Mystic Sweep][Wounding Strike][Victorious Sweep][Save Yourselves!][Faithful Intervention]

More attack skills than you, same number of enchantments, less energy management, no zealous scythe, and I still don't end up doing much auto-attacking. What this tells me is that your energy problems likely stem from one of the following:

zealous renewal
asuran scan

Depending on how often you hit, zealous renewal might be either not giving you as much energy as you need, or even costing more than it's worth (if you do the math, you'll find that even with Heart of Fury, you'll only get about 10 net energy out of the skill, and that's if you land every single attack while under it). Asuran scan could also be an energy sink if you're using it every 10 seconds (honestly though, asuran scan isn't as great for dervs as it is for some professions because it only affects one foe, and dervs tend to focus on hitting many at once to take advantage of their scythes).

Are you using a 20% enchanting mod on your scythe? Until yesterday, I wasn't, but even a 12% enchanting mod (which I was using) makes a difference in how often you have to recast your enchantments (and therefore, how much energy you spend).

Also, are you letting your enchantments run out, or are you stacking them? This matters a LOT, because mysticism only gives you energy if an enchantment ends on you. Stacking an enchantment robs you of 4 energy (if your mysticism is 12-13). Just let it run out and recast it a second later.

I don't have EotN, but I can say that Farmer's Scythe isn't gonna help your energy management. Instantly recharging a skill doesn't make it cheaper. In fact, it's more expensive than say, mystic sweep, because you have to use it more often to make up for the lower damage.

If you're really strapped for energy, you might want to (and I expect to get crucified for suggesting this) go D/E and take a Conjure instead of AoHM (GASP! A Dervish without AoHM!), since your build so far only uses dervish skills. Yes, I know AoHM does more damage, but it's not as much as people think unless your kurzick/luxon rank is very high (with a 6 in water magic, conjure frost does on average just as much extra damage as AoHM does with a rank of 2 or 3). More importantly, conjures last 3 times as long, so that's much less energy being spent recasting AoHM.

If you're willing to switch between weapons when you're not in battle to avoid the energy degen, a zealous scythe might be a good idea. If you use an IAS or hit multiple foes at once, you'll get more energy out of it than you lose.

This last one might seem kind of dumb, but are you making sure you don't accidentally recast Fathful Intervention (or any other enchantment, for that matter), unnecessarily? Every once in a while, in the heat of a battle I'll go to hit that SY! button and hit FI instead, wasting time and energy while feeling like an idiot.

Try out some of those. I know at least one should help. In the meantime, here's what I would suggest build-wise:

[Reaper's Sweep] OR [Wounding Strike]

[Aura of Holy Might] OR [Conjure Frost]/[Conjure Flame]/[Conjure Lightning] (depending on how desperate you are for the energy)

[Heart of Fury]

[Asuran Scan] (maybe; if you're using 20% enchanting mods and letting your enchantments run out so mysticism kicks in and still have energy problems, then this is likely the culprit)

[Victorious Sweep]/[Mystic Sweep]/[Eremite's Attack]

[Second Attack Skill]

[Faithful Intervention]

[Optional] (if you're sticking with AoHM, then Save Yourselves! would work very nicely here because it costs no energy and the rest of your party will thank you for the +100 armor; a hard rez is also always helpful)

If all else fails, be aware that even with the best energy management in Tyria, you are probably going to have to auto-attack at least once in a while, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, so long as you're getting something out of it (ie, the benefits of a sundering mod, another skill slot, etc).

Maneo Ranae · May 21, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I'm not quite understanding how your build is tough on energy though. I usually run the following:
[For Great Justice!][Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][Mystic Sweep][Wounding Strike][Victorious Sweep][Save Yourselves!][Faithful Intervention]

More attack skills than you, same number of enchantments, less energy management, no zealous scythe, and I still don't end up doing much auto-attacking. What this tells me is that your energy problems likely stem from one of the following:

zealous renewal
asuran scan

Guilty

. It was indeed Asuran Scan.

Quote:

Are you using a 20% enchanting mod on your scythe? Until yesterday, I wasn't, but even a 12% enchanting mod (which I was using) makes a difference in how often you have to recast your enchantments (and therefore, how much energy you spend).

No, I am not, I'm using a Fortitude Grip. Frankly, in my new current build the only enchantments I use are Aura of Holy Might and Faithful Intervention. The extra 4 seconds on AoHM don't really matter that much to me =).

Quote:

Also, are you letting your enchantments run out, or are you stacking them? This matters a LOT, because mysticism only gives you energy if an enchantment ends on you. Stacking an enchantment robs you of 4 energy (if your mysticism is 12-13). Just let it run out and recast it a second later.

I am not a complete nub to Derv'ing,... xD Yes, I always let my enchantments run out. In fact, with my new build, I can't even maintain one of my enchants! =).

Quote:

I don't have EotN, but I can say that Farmer's Scythe isn't gonna help your energy management. Instantly recharging a skill doesn't make it cheaper. In fact, it's more expensive than say, mystic sweep, because you have to use it more often to make up for the lower damage.

I only asked if Farmer's Scythe would be a welcome addition, since taking out Chilling Victory for Whirlwind Attack, taking out Asuran Scan for Zealous Sweep and Heart of Fury for Drunken Master left me with LOADS of extra energy =).

Quote:

If you're really strapped for energy, you might want to (and I expect to get crucified for suggesting this) go D/E and take a Conjure instead of AoHM (GASP! A Dervish without AoHM!), since your build so far only uses dervish skills. Yes, I know AoHM does more damage, but it's not as much as people think unless your kurzick/luxon rank is very high (with a 6 in water magic, conjure frost does on average just as much extra damage as AoHM does with a rank of 2 or 3). More importantly, conjures last 3 times as long, so that's much less energy being spent recasting AoHM.

I fail to comprehend how +11 damage is actually better than an increased damage rating of now 33-65 (I'm rank 4, so +24 damage rating), ASWELL as the latter dealing double damage Vs. Undead ^^. (And not being Elemental damage so that Rangers laugh at you, Destroyers laugh at you for using Conjure Flame aswell as Ice Imps/Elementals laughing at you for Conjure Frost xD)

Quote:

This last one might seem kind of dumb, but are you making sure you don't accidentally recast Fathful Intervention (or any other enchantment, for that matter), unnecessarily? Every once in a while, in the heat of a battle I'll go to hit that SY! button and hit FI instead, wasting time and energy while feeling like an idiot.

I usually never have anything that needs to be renewed anywhere soon at the end of the bar. My skillbars follow a strict setup -- Stances at the front, then attack skills, then utility (On Warriors usually Lion's Comfort/"Save Yourselves!"), then the self-enchants, from low duration to high duration. So Faithful Intervention always ends up at the end of my bar, nothing else does ^^.

Quote:

Try out some of those. I know at least one should help. In the meantime, here's what I would suggest build-wise:

[Reaper's Sweep] OR [Wounding Strike]

[Aura of Holy Might] OR [Conjure Frost]/[Conjure Flame]/[Conjure Lightning] (depending on how desperate you are for the energy)

[Heart of Fury]

[Asuran Scan] (maybe; if you're using 20% enchanting mods and letting your enchantments run out so mysticism kicks in and still have energy problems, then this is likely the culprit)

[Victorious Sweep]/[Mystic Sweep]/[Eremite's Attack]

[Second Attack Skill]

[Faithful Intervention]

[Optional] (if you're sticking with AoHM, then Save Yourselves! would work very nicely here because it costs no energy and the rest of your party will thank you for the +100 armor; a hard rez is also always helpful)

If all else fails, be aware that even with the best energy management in Tyria, you are probably going to have to auto-attack at least once in a while, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, so long as you're getting something out of it (ie, the benefits of a sundering mod, another skill slot, etc).

So, in conclusion; Asuran Scan was the culprit ^^ But my current build makes me overmanage my energy. See here!

Scythe Mastery = 12+1+2
Mysticism = 12+1

Drunken Master (@6) - Reaper's Sweep - Whirlwind Attack (@8) - Zealous Sweep - {Optional} - Aura of Holy Might (@4) - Faithful Intervention - Resurrection Signet

^^. Comments?

Slasher of Darkness · May 22, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Tbh, I always have 2 set PvE skills on my bar, I ALWAYS have Asuran Scan and Aura of Holy Might, just coz they make me hit 100-200+ damage every 4/5 hits and blow stuff up rly fast. Third one depends on what build I'm running and where I'm running it, usually its Drunken Master, but sometimes SY! or anything else that i might need, for example, area with KD's "IaU" and will use HoF for IAS. Anyway, I would suggest keeping asuran scan, coz it just blows stuff up. Especially at high rank. Btw, I kind of spam asuran scan on recharge and i NEVER have energy problems. I also spam Attacker's Insight on recharge if still in battle after it's recharged, which doesnt happen often. Good luck!

reaper with no name · May 22, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Actually, it's +20-30 to the damage rating. In my tests at rank 2 or 3, AoHM gives you about the same benefit as a conjure. But at higher ranks, AoHM pwns conjures easily. It's less energy-intensive though because it lasts longer, and that's the reason I suggested it. But getting rid of Asuran Scan would help much more, and if that's all you need, then that's all you need.

A fortitude grip only increases your survivability by about 6%. A 20% enchanting mod is more useful. Remember, AoHM is lasting 20% longer, as is HoF, as well as any enchantments the rest of your party is putting on you. Aegis, Protective Spirit, the list goes on.

Not sure why you're going with Whirlwind Attack. Honestly, I think SY! would be a much better addition. Your party will thank you a lot more for it.

Megas XLR · May 22, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

as well as any enchantments the rest of your party is putting on you. Aegis, Protective Spirit, the list goes on.

It's only 20% to enchantments that the user casts, I still use it over +30 hp any day though.

reaper with no name · May 22, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

It is? Interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

Improvavel · May 23, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Or you can have a scythe with +30 health and swap to another scythe or staff with a +20% enchantments when u cast the enchantments.

reaper with no name · May 27, 2009, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Does the +20% last once you've switched weapons, though? This is something I've always been curious about.

riktw · May 27, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

yes it does.

reaper with no name · May 31, 2009, 07:36 AM // 07:36

...And, I just confirmed it for myself in tests on the Isle of Nameless.